April 1, 2009
By: Erika Lovely
Rep. Donald A. Manzullo, who represents a district with a 14 percent unemployment rate, has taken to carrying around an index card inscribed with passages from the Bible. During hearings on the economy, he takes it out and props it up in front of him to help him keep his cool.
The other day, he forgot the card.
“Can’t anybody say yes or no?!” Manzullo barked at Timothy Geithner and Ben Bernanke as they testified about the government bailout of AIG. “Can you give me a yes or no? Anybody there? Please!”
“When I get embroiled on something, I feel bad,” Manzullo told POLITICO later.
“I don’t enjoy grilling somebody; that’s not who I am. But when I ask questions, my mind is a continuous book of colored pictures showing the people I represent.”
Those people are angry — everybody’s angry — and the emotion is spilling out every day now in hearings in the House and the Senate. There’s nothing Washington loves more than the skewering of a high-powered official, and there’s a huge cast of characters — Geithner, Bernanke, Wall Street financiers, bank chairmen, auto company execs — all taking the brunt as members flex their interrogation muscles.
When AIG Chairman Edward M. Liddy took his turn on the coals recently, Rep. Stephen F. Lynch (D-Mass.) was ready with the matches and the lighter fluid.
“This is so outrageous that you would say we’re not going to be victims of our own stupid decisions,” Lynch snapped at the bailed-out CEO. “That is simply unbelievable. It’s arrogance. Do you have anything to say for yourself?”
“I really do. … I take offense to that, sir,” Liddy replied.
“Well, the offense was intended, so you take it rightfully, sir,” Lynch snapped back.
Members and their constituents are testy, and that has some of the witnesses feeling tested.
While Liddy endured one long day in the witness chair, Geithner has had the pleasure of testifying seven times in his first two months as treasury secretary. He has warmed to the hot seat; he’s getting better marks now than he did at some of his initial appearances. But at least one behavior expert says Geithner’s body language suggests that he’s still not entirely at ease behind the witness table.
At POLITICO’s request, celebrity psychotherapist and communication expert Jonathan Alpert reviewed videos of testimony by Geithner and other members of the Obama Cabinet who’ve found themselves frequenting Capitol Hill. His diagnosis: The secretaries’ testimony may be spot on, but their body language sometimes signals that they’re still uncomfortable with some of the questions they’re getting.
At one Geithner hearing, Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) fired off a string of pointed questions on executive bonuses. Geithner kept folding his hands, suggesting he was subconsciously trying to protect and comfort himself, Alpert said.
“It can also be a reflection of holding himself together and containing his emotions during a heated exchange … where he may have felt badgered,” Alpert said. “Hand-holding can be soothing and comforting when under pressure.”
At times, Geithner’s facial expressions seemed exaggerated, Alpert said, something people do to try to emphasize the credibility of their statements. In contrast, under a more gentle set of questions from House Capital Markets Committee Chairman Paul E. Kanjorski (D-Pa.), Geithner’s speech was sometimes spontaneous and impromptu — indicating, Alpert said, a degree of certainty.
Energy Secretary Steven Chu also held his hands as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) grilled him about the nuclear waste dump at Yucca Mountain during a recent Senate Energy Committee hearing.
“What’s wrong with Yucca Mountain, Dr. Chu?” McCain demanded.
“We have learned a lot more in the last 25 years … .”
McCain cut him off.
“I know that,” he said. “What is wrong with Yucca Mountain, Dr. Chu?”
“I think we can do a better job,” Chu said softly.
“The answer lacks specificity and confidence. He seems unable to commit to the truth,” said Alpert. “He also attempts to take charge at the point when he says: ‘Let’s separate the issues.’”
Alpert said that Janet Napolitano, the homeland security secretary, exuded almost flawless confidence in the video he watched.
“She’s used to playing at this level,” said Homeland Security Department expert Jeff Sural, former deputy assistant secretary in the Office of Legislative Affairs. “As a former governor, she knows how to answer the questions, especially for the D.C. crowd.”
After spending 26 years as a judge, Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) has learned to watch the body language of witnesses carefully.
“When you’re denying the truth, you get very uncomfortable and your body language changes. Your eye movement, your gestures, they all change,” he said.
But answering the tough questions may not be the hardest role in the hearing.
Some of Congress’ best-known prosecutors say it’s taken them years to perfect the grill. That often means interrupting, shouting, gesturing and boxing witnesses into their own answers — all in the five minutes each member of a House committee typically get with a witness.
Rep. Michael E. Capuano (D-Mass.), who famously accused FAA officials of “embarrassing all of us here” during a 2007 airport delay hearing, said he never self-edits.
“The only time I get upset is when someone treats us like we’re stupid,” he said. “I’m not afraid to wear my emotions on my sleeve. I’ll let you know you’re not the only smart guy in the room.”
Skilled witnesses, like former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, are notorious for finding ways to run out the clock, which members acknowledge is sometimes the best defense.
“Al Greenspan would take a question and purposely speak on and on, and no one ever knew what he was talking about,” Manzullo said.
Lynch said the key is patience. The former contracts lawyer is often the 20th or 30th member called on during the question period.
“You’ve got to have an ironclad ass,” he warned. “If you sit and listen, you have time to refine your own questions, but it takes a while.”
Others, like House Energy Committee Chairman Henry A. Waxman, have become adept at fire-hosing both witnesses and members of his own committee at the same time. Last year, when he was still chairman of the Oversight Committee, Waxman threatened to have Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “physically removed” if he continued to interrupt his interrogation of then-EPA chief Stephen Johnson.
Former House Ethics Committee Staff Director William V. O’Reilly said that the structure of a congressional hearing can provide some key opportunities for members that a deposition or a courtroom cross-examination doesn’t.
Lawyers aren’t allowed to answer questions for their witness-clients. When a witness won’t answer questions, lawmakers can use the power of the public audience to press for a response. Questions can be as pointed as needed; there’s no judge to intervene and protect the witness from bullying.
“If a lawmaker keeps asking the same question over and over, and the witness keeps evading, it becomes clear that we all know what the answer is; it’s not a good answer for him,” O’Reilly said.
You don’t need to tell Manzullo that. The conservative Republican scored points against Geithner recently when he pressed the treasury secretary on why taxpayer dollars were used to protect AIG pensions.
“That’s what happened, isn’t it?” Manzullo asked.
“Congressman,” Geithner began, “those losses to the American people … .”
“Give me a yes or a no, please,” Manzullo interrupted. “I’m asking the questions.”